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	<title>Comments on: NO FAT CHICKS</title>
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	<link>http://www.nurturingenvironments.org/2010/02/09/no-fat-chicks/</link>
	<description>Promoting the spread of nurturing environments.</description>
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		<title>By: Anthony Biglan</title>
		<link>http://www.nurturingenvironments.org/2010/02/09/no-fat-chicks/comment-page-1/#comment-2138</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony Biglan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:31:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nurturingenvironments.org/?p=146#comment-2138</guid>
		<description>In many ways, the thing that motivates me in pursuing this issue is the tendency for people to view each other through their assumptions about the other person.  One of the ACT workshop activities is to have someone stand in front of the group and ask everyone to just notice the thoughts that they have about that person.  Then they ask the person to answer a series of questions, like, &quot;When is the last time  you cried?&quot; &quot;What is the thing that gave you the most joy in the last month?&quot; 

The point is to notice how much more complex and human a real person is than the initial thoughts we have about them.  This is one version of being in the moment--just noticing everything about a person without judgment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In many ways, the thing that motivates me in pursuing this issue is the tendency for people to view each other through their assumptions about the other person.  One of the ACT workshop activities is to have someone stand in front of the group and ask everyone to just notice the thoughts that they have about that person.  Then they ask the person to answer a series of questions, like, &#8220;When is the last time  you cried?&#8221; &#8220;What is the thing that gave you the most joy in the last month?&#8221; </p>
<p>The point is to notice how much more complex and human a real person is than the initial thoughts we have about them.  This is one version of being in the moment&#8211;just noticing everything about a person without judgment.</p>
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		<title>By: Hekate</title>
		<link>http://www.nurturingenvironments.org/2010/02/09/no-fat-chicks/comment-page-1/#comment-2137</link>
		<dc:creator>Hekate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:37:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nurturingenvironments.org/?p=146#comment-2137</guid>
		<description>How interesting to have this discussion about &quot;holding thoughts/feelings/laws lightly.&quot;  It reminds me of the difficulties faced by a speaker who wants to be absolutely unequivocal--not so easy as you&#039;d think.  I have found it most useful to deal with my thoughts and feeling as if they were an odor that I&#039;d just noticed.  Let&#039;s say I come home to a find sweet smell  permeating my house.  If I take it seriously, I will investigate the possibilities.  It could be that someone has placed a bowl of hyacinths in the room  They are beautiful and I love the aroma, but if I&#039;m exposed too long, I get asthma.  What to do?  How about putting them outside where I can see them and catch a whiff when I pass by.  Or I could give them to a neighbor w/o allergies.  Or that smell could be the overripe oranges in the fruit bowl. Eek!  Fruit flies.  Better deal with that.  Or it could be that modest and pleasant aroma from the new furniture polish.  Enjoy, enjoy!

Perhaps the hyper-vigilance occasioned by PTSD propelled me to dealing with things this way.  And I can see, as this discussion continues, that what one person calls &quot;holding lightly&quot; may, strangely, resemble what another person calls &quot;taking seriously.&quot;  Vive la difference de la meme chose!&quot;

Hekate</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How interesting to have this discussion about &#8220;holding thoughts/feelings/laws lightly.&#8221;  It reminds me of the difficulties faced by a speaker who wants to be absolutely unequivocal&#8211;not so easy as you&#8217;d think.  I have found it most useful to deal with my thoughts and feeling as if they were an odor that I&#8217;d just noticed.  Let&#8217;s say I come home to a find sweet smell  permeating my house.  If I take it seriously, I will investigate the possibilities.  It could be that someone has placed a bowl of hyacinths in the room  They are beautiful and I love the aroma, but if I&#8217;m exposed too long, I get asthma.  What to do?  How about putting them outside where I can see them and catch a whiff when I pass by.  Or I could give them to a neighbor w/o allergies.  Or that smell could be the overripe oranges in the fruit bowl. Eek!  Fruit flies.  Better deal with that.  Or it could be that modest and pleasant aroma from the new furniture polish.  Enjoy, enjoy!</p>
<p>Perhaps the hyper-vigilance occasioned by PTSD propelled me to dealing with things this way.  And I can see, as this discussion continues, that what one person calls &#8220;holding lightly&#8221; may, strangely, resemble what another person calls &#8220;taking seriously.&#8221;  Vive la difference de la meme chose!&#8221;</p>
<p>Hekate</p>
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		<title>By: Ed W</title>
		<link>http://www.nurturingenvironments.org/2010/02/09/no-fat-chicks/comment-page-1/#comment-2136</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:45:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nurturingenvironments.org/?p=146#comment-2136</guid>
		<description>I like the &quot;hold my laws loosely&quot; post.  It made me think about something I have been doing too much of, namely reacting to people on the basis of what I suppose their beliefs are, rather than asking and finding out.  I perhaps have been infected by the contentious political atmosphere we have in this country (which goes back through all of my living memory).  I react strongly when I am tagged with a label about my politics, since I don&#039;t fit any known category.  I should practice what I preach (or at least feel).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the &#8220;hold my laws loosely&#8221; post.  It made me think about something I have been doing too much of, namely reacting to people on the basis of what I suppose their beliefs are, rather than asking and finding out.  I perhaps have been infected by the contentious political atmosphere we have in this country (which goes back through all of my living memory).  I react strongly when I am tagged with a label about my politics, since I don&#8217;t fit any known category.  I should practice what I preach (or at least feel).</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Jabson</title>
		<link>http://www.nurturingenvironments.org/2010/02/09/no-fat-chicks/comment-page-1/#comment-2134</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Jabson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:22:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nurturingenvironments.org/?p=146#comment-2134</guid>
		<description>I am deeply touched by this post and Hekate&#039;s response.  I have two thoughts immediately. First, I have a different reaction to &#039;holding thoughts lightly&#039;.  When I was an undergraduate student I fell into a passionate love affair with biology.  Not my bio prof, or my peer, but the laws and theories that comprised biology.  I loved the predictability of the patterns I witnessed, I loved the stability of laws and theories, I felt like I had come home.  Then, one day, near the end of my three course series my professor pushed me right over the edge.  In a terrific lecture he reminded us that we must &#039;hold our laws lightly&#039;.  That laws, theorems, and theories WOULD change.  That we would need, in our lifetimes, to accept new laws and approaches to problems.  That in holding our laws lightly we became empowered to think outside the box, to become revolutionaries in science, to take what we had learned and push to new limits.  This of course frightened me, but also was inspiring beyond measure.  Suddenly it was clear that by holding my laws &#039;lightly&#039; I could not only become empowered to seek new truth, but I could also let good things come and &#039;bad&#039; things go with far less difficulty.  While I decided to pursue social sciences instead of biology or medicine, I continue to hold my laws loosely.  I think this is one of the metaphors to live my life by.  I want to be open to the new things that come, and yet I want to hold on to those things that are beneficial to me and those around me...but only for as long as they are useful.  This is interesting however in the context of the &#039;no fat chicks&#039; post.

I have been teaching women&#039;s studies for the past few years and the feminist in me has a visceral and negative reaction to such bumpers stickers and signs as the one that inspired this post.  And, yet, if I am to &#039;hold my laws loosely&#039; and maintain my commitment to acts of kindness and love for humanity, I want to, and must,  find a &#039;positive&#039; way to react to  misogynistic, negative, hateful speech.  This makes me think of some the recent hate crime committed against the U of O Pride Center.  Awful, ugly, hateful speech was used to hurt the Pride Organization and to send a message to all people who affiliate with that organization (gay or straight).  The Pride Center&#039;s response was to first contact the necessary &#039;powers&#039; that be, but then they organized positive, empowering rallies and marches.  They did not hold on to their anger (at least so it seemed from media reports, newspaper interviews and facebook posts), but acknowledged its presence and turned the energy into an opportunity to spread positive opportunity for the community. It is possible that a rally to celebrate &#039;fat chicks&#039; might be difficult to orchestrate, but this positive act would certainly fly in the face of the person (I will resist my bias and urge to assume that the person driving that vehicle in Portland was male) who responds to his or her own emptiness with hurtful bumper sticker messages against women.  But it would be a way to spread nurturing environments in response to this hateful message.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am deeply touched by this post and Hekate&#8217;s response.  I have two thoughts immediately. First, I have a different reaction to &#8216;holding thoughts lightly&#8217;.  When I was an undergraduate student I fell into a passionate love affair with biology.  Not my bio prof, or my peer, but the laws and theories that comprised biology.  I loved the predictability of the patterns I witnessed, I loved the stability of laws and theories, I felt like I had come home.  Then, one day, near the end of my three course series my professor pushed me right over the edge.  In a terrific lecture he reminded us that we must &#8216;hold our laws lightly&#8217;.  That laws, theorems, and theories WOULD change.  That we would need, in our lifetimes, to accept new laws and approaches to problems.  That in holding our laws lightly we became empowered to think outside the box, to become revolutionaries in science, to take what we had learned and push to new limits.  This of course frightened me, but also was inspiring beyond measure.  Suddenly it was clear that by holding my laws &#8216;lightly&#8217; I could not only become empowered to seek new truth, but I could also let good things come and &#8216;bad&#8217; things go with far less difficulty.  While I decided to pursue social sciences instead of biology or medicine, I continue to hold my laws loosely.  I think this is one of the metaphors to live my life by.  I want to be open to the new things that come, and yet I want to hold on to those things that are beneficial to me and those around me&#8230;but only for as long as they are useful.  This is interesting however in the context of the &#8216;no fat chicks&#8217; post.</p>
<p>I have been teaching women&#8217;s studies for the past few years and the feminist in me has a visceral and negative reaction to such bumpers stickers and signs as the one that inspired this post.  And, yet, if I am to &#8216;hold my laws loosely&#8217; and maintain my commitment to acts of kindness and love for humanity, I want to, and must,  find a &#8216;positive&#8217; way to react to  misogynistic, negative, hateful speech.  This makes me think of some the recent hate crime committed against the U of O Pride Center.  Awful, ugly, hateful speech was used to hurt the Pride Organization and to send a message to all people who affiliate with that organization (gay or straight).  The Pride Center&#8217;s response was to first contact the necessary &#8216;powers&#8217; that be, but then they organized positive, empowering rallies and marches.  They did not hold on to their anger (at least so it seemed from media reports, newspaper interviews and facebook posts), but acknowledged its presence and turned the energy into an opportunity to spread positive opportunity for the community. It is possible that a rally to celebrate &#8216;fat chicks&#8217; might be difficult to orchestrate, but this positive act would certainly fly in the face of the person (I will resist my bias and urge to assume that the person driving that vehicle in Portland was male) who responds to his or her own emptiness with hurtful bumper sticker messages against women.  But it would be a way to spread nurturing environments in response to this hateful message.</p>
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		<title>By: Hekate</title>
		<link>http://www.nurturingenvironments.org/2010/02/09/no-fat-chicks/comment-page-1/#comment-2133</link>
		<dc:creator>Hekate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 14:48:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nurturingenvironments.org/?p=146#comment-2133</guid>
		<description>&quot;Speaking as a card carrying FAT OLD BITCH, not to mention an old bag and interfering old biddy, I heartily endorse your approach.  

Over the last 4 decades I&#039;ve have the opportunity to work as a Youth Worker in an interracial neighborhood; as a telephone resource operator in a rural poverty program; as director of a group home for adolescent boys with autism and other intellectual disabilities; as a clerk in a &quot;New Age&quot; store dispensing various &quot;positivity&quot; products and finally, as a city transit bus driver.  I also spent a few months backpacking and hitchhiking around the Pacific NW.  

I met a lot of people who were scary and abusive.  But I met more people who were generous, who were frightened, who were dealing with enormous hardships, who were humorous and enormously courageous.  From them I learned to stand up to bullies without starting a war.  

When someone called (calls) me a bitch and I look them in the eye, smile and say, &quot;Right on, best bitch in town.&quot; or &quot;That would be me,&quot; the whole interaction changes.  They are generally at a loss for words.  So I can ask them why they thought I was a bitch.  Or how they would feel if someone said that to their mother.  Occasionally, these interactions have led to real fellowship.  None of them has led to further hostility.  (And I was always shaking in my number 10&#039;s when I started these conversations.)

For a while when I was a city bus driver, it was the fashion for teenage boys to board the bus wearing tee shirts that proclaimed, in the largest type: &quot;SHUT UP BITCH!&quot;.  It&#039;s hard to describe the jolt a female driver experiences, imprisoned in the driver&#039;s seat with a job that can&#039;t be lost, when confronted with this .  The first time I saw it, I was cowed, made no eye contact and slunk (insofar as it&#039;s possible to slink in a driver&#039;s seat) away from the encounter.  By the time it happened again I was prepared.  I took the fare and asked the boy what the shirt meant to him.  He was nonplussed and didn&#039;t want to talk about it.  But I persevered, assuring him I was interested in what it meant to him.  He told me he thought it was cool.  I asked him if he wore it around his mother.  He admitted that he didn&#039;t.  Then we talked about a bunch of other things, in quite a friendly way.  He never wore the shirt again in my presence and we were friendly whenever he was aboard. Happily, the fashion was short-lived.

During the Vietnam war, a comedian whose name I forget, said: &quot;If you want to end war and shit, you gotta sing loud!&quot;  I took that to mean that if you wanted to change things, you needed to have the courage to do scary things, even when it might cost you something.  I think it&#039;s still true.  So come all you fat bitches and dirty antiwar cowards and liberal country spoilers and lift up your voices. Let&#039;s sing a new song and sing it loud!
Hekate&quot;

PS.  Tony, I&#039;ve been thinking about my aversion to &quot;holding thoughts lightly.&quot;  That phrase continues to be aversive to me.  I realize it is a reaction to a lifetime of people telling me I take myself too seriously--people who were intent on keeping me coughing up way more than I received or who depended on keeping me subordinate to their desires.  (The experience of far too many women.)  So when someone tells me to hold my thoughts likely, there is not a snowball&#039;s chance that I will take that advice.  

Also, I realize that I believe and experience the exact opposite to be the most effective way for me to deal w/ life.  (Lots of pathways to glory, maybe...)  I experience that taking my thoughts and feeling seriously as signals of underlying, misunderstood or forgotten experiences and looking to discover where they come from and what they mean to me results in my increased understanding, freedom from pain and enlargement of empathy to myself and others.  It&#039;s a bit in the way of your thesis that the &quot;no fat chicks&quot; guys, for example, feel one down and crappy.  Many roads lead to Rome, and, if Rome is where you want to go, following the road that gives you the best experience is perhaps, the best way to proceed.

Lots of love, not to mention admiration and respect.  Hekate</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Speaking as a card carrying FAT OLD BITCH, not to mention an old bag and interfering old biddy, I heartily endorse your approach.  </p>
<p>Over the last 4 decades I&#8217;ve have the opportunity to work as a Youth Worker in an interracial neighborhood; as a telephone resource operator in a rural poverty program; as director of a group home for adolescent boys with autism and other intellectual disabilities; as a clerk in a &#8220;New Age&#8221; store dispensing various &#8220;positivity&#8221; products and finally, as a city transit bus driver.  I also spent a few months backpacking and hitchhiking around the Pacific NW.  </p>
<p>I met a lot of people who were scary and abusive.  But I met more people who were generous, who were frightened, who were dealing with enormous hardships, who were humorous and enormously courageous.  From them I learned to stand up to bullies without starting a war.  </p>
<p>When someone called (calls) me a bitch and I look them in the eye, smile and say, &#8220;Right on, best bitch in town.&#8221; or &#8220;That would be me,&#8221; the whole interaction changes.  They are generally at a loss for words.  So I can ask them why they thought I was a bitch.  Or how they would feel if someone said that to their mother.  Occasionally, these interactions have led to real fellowship.  None of them has led to further hostility.  (And I was always shaking in my number 10&#8217;s when I started these conversations.)</p>
<p>For a while when I was a city bus driver, it was the fashion for teenage boys to board the bus wearing tee shirts that proclaimed, in the largest type: &#8220;SHUT UP BITCH!&#8221;.  It&#8217;s hard to describe the jolt a female driver experiences, imprisoned in the driver&#8217;s seat with a job that can&#8217;t be lost, when confronted with this .  The first time I saw it, I was cowed, made no eye contact and slunk (insofar as it&#8217;s possible to slink in a driver&#8217;s seat) away from the encounter.  By the time it happened again I was prepared.  I took the fare and asked the boy what the shirt meant to him.  He was nonplussed and didn&#8217;t want to talk about it.  But I persevered, assuring him I was interested in what it meant to him.  He told me he thought it was cool.  I asked him if he wore it around his mother.  He admitted that he didn&#8217;t.  Then we talked about a bunch of other things, in quite a friendly way.  He never wore the shirt again in my presence and we were friendly whenever he was aboard. Happily, the fashion was short-lived.</p>
<p>During the Vietnam war, a comedian whose name I forget, said: &#8220;If you want to end war and shit, you gotta sing loud!&#8221;  I took that to mean that if you wanted to change things, you needed to have the courage to do scary things, even when it might cost you something.  I think it&#8217;s still true.  So come all you fat bitches and dirty antiwar cowards and liberal country spoilers and lift up your voices. Let&#8217;s sing a new song and sing it loud!<br />
Hekate&#8221;</p>
<p>PS.  Tony, I&#8217;ve been thinking about my aversion to &#8220;holding thoughts lightly.&#8221;  That phrase continues to be aversive to me.  I realize it is a reaction to a lifetime of people telling me I take myself too seriously&#8211;people who were intent on keeping me coughing up way more than I received or who depended on keeping me subordinate to their desires.  (The experience of far too many women.)  So when someone tells me to hold my thoughts likely, there is not a snowball&#8217;s chance that I will take that advice.  </p>
<p>Also, I realize that I believe and experience the exact opposite to be the most effective way for me to deal w/ life.  (Lots of pathways to glory, maybe&#8230;)  I experience that taking my thoughts and feeling seriously as signals of underlying, misunderstood or forgotten experiences and looking to discover where they come from and what they mean to me results in my increased understanding, freedom from pain and enlargement of empathy to myself and others.  It&#8217;s a bit in the way of your thesis that the &#8220;no fat chicks&#8221; guys, for example, feel one down and crappy.  Many roads lead to Rome, and, if Rome is where you want to go, following the road that gives you the best experience is perhaps, the best way to proceed.</p>
<p>Lots of love, not to mention admiration and respect.  Hekate</p>
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